What actually happened AFTER Jesus zoomed up into the clouds and disappeared?

by TerryWalstrom in

what happened after jesus zoomed up into the sky?for a while, he was expected to return rather quickly.in the meantime, there was the “great commission” and evangelism to be tended to.. the jesus believers were meeting in people's homes.

members of that community would take turns using private homes to gather.

thus, they went house to house.. these footstep tracers of jesus (they called themselves akolouthontes "followers" or some called themselves mathetai or "learners.

Island Man

I believe it's quite possible that the claim of Jesus' resurrection was in fact a hoax involving the stealing of his body from the tomb. That would explain why one of the gospels claims that the soldiers were paid to lie saying that his body was stolen. Maybe the soldiers didn't lie. Maybe that is, in fact, the truth and the writer is claiming that it's a lie to poison the minds of new, prospective converts so that they will disbelieve the stolen body truth when they hear it from critics of the religion. JWs do the same kind of thing today to their bible students: "People will tell you that we break up families and we're a cult. Don't believe them it's all lies by those who hate us".

It's very interesting that gospel accounts relate that Jesus' disciples had trouble recognizing him after his resurrection. Another NT book suggests that the identity/recognition of the resurrected Jesus was kept hidden from most but revealed only to a few chosen ones. Think about it: This claim would be extremely convenient for explaining why no one noticed Jesus alive after his death - because he was never actually resurrected. His disciples can simply answer that refutation by saying no one saw him because his identity was kept hidden from all but a few. In other words, this hidden identity claim serves to make the claim of Jesus' resurrection unfalsifiable - at least from the perspective of persons saying no one saw Jesus alive after his death. And here's the best part:

Resurrection hoaxing disciple: "Of course you saw Jesus. Do you remember that man you were speaking to on the road to Emmaus? That was Jesus! You didn't recognize him because his identity was miraculously kept hidden from you. But that was Jesus - you spoke to the resurrected Jesus!!"

Gullible disciple: "I did? . . . I did . . . I saw the resurrected Jesus! I SAW THE RESURRECTED JESUS!!"

See how that could work? What if the bulk of the 500 witnesses whom the bible claims saw the resurrected Jesus, were persons that were duped in a manner similar to the example above, using the hidden identity claim? What if, in a desperate bid to keep the religion going after the death of the historical Jesus, a hoaxer impersonated the resurrected Jesus; and the hidden identity claim was concocted to serve as cover for the fact that he didn't resemble the Jesus that all were familiar with? When people want to believe it's not hard to deceive them.

34

Will Watchtower target the inactive?

by ToesUp in

jw
friends

if watchtower has no reason to df ones.

they have just become inactive.

do you all think wt will begin a witch hunt (df'ing) for these inactive ones?

Island Man

Yes, I think it's possible that they will target inactive ones. But they won't use the word disfellowship. They will want to make it seem like it's all the doing of the inactive one. They will more likely say that such ones have disassociated themselves by virtue of their extended, willful inactivity. Maybe they'll institute a new policy that says an inactive one disassociates himself if he remains inactive for more than x years.

This will serve to plug the hole to leaving through fading. And they can say that they don't punish anyone for being inactive, nor do they force anyone to continue attending meetings and field service, but that they respect person's' right to choose to be inactive or to choose to disassociate by extended inactivity.

I think they will use it as a tactic to force fading JWs into returning. When the faded JW's time is coming close to the period where he will be classified as disassociated, the elders will call him and inform him that his non-attendance means his disassociation from the organization - along with all the negative implications - is imminent. They will ask him if this is what he wants or if he wants their help to be reactivated so that he can continue to have association with his JW family.

7

Shunning

by sinboi in

did the org have any guidelines on shunning?.

if the son is d/a or d/f, are the parents supposed to disown him, chase him out of the house?.

for husband and wife, do they need to divorce or what?.

Island Man

Minor children still living at home aren't to be shunned by parents or those living in the home.

Adult relatives still living in a home with JWs aren't to be shunned by the relatives, but they're supposed to limit association to essential family communication and the DF'd adult isn't to eat at the same table with them nor participate with others in spiritual conversation or family worship.

If a DF'd or DA'd adult is regarded by the elders as being a "threat to the spirituality" of other JWs living in the same home, then depending on who has ownership rights to the property, the adult ex-JW will either be thrown out of the house or the other JWs will leave. I think this is almost always the case, even if the ex-JW is not seen as an immediate threat, except in a situation where the adult ex-JW is unable to live independently. "Threat to spirituality" is also a condition on which a JW can divorce or separate from an ex-JW spouse.

26

Prayers ,are they answered ? or is it just self delusion ?

by smiddy3 in

after 33 years as a jw and leaving 25 years ago i think prayer can be summed up with the jews praying at the wailing wall.. all they are doing is talking to a brick wall ,and getting no feed back.

and they expect an answer to their prayers ?!.

christians /other beliefs might find that funny but they are no better off.. prayer is always a one way street you talk either vocally or mentally to god however you never get the same back .. if god " so loved the world that he doesnt want any to be destroyed but have everlasting life " then whats the problem with him audibly answering his servants prayers ?

Island Man

It's just self delusion, and here's how it can be demonstrated:

The only prayers that are ever "answered" are prayers for events that are possible without a god: Getting a new job, recovering from a recoverable illness, finding a life partner, finding your keys, etc. All these are events that are very much within the realm of possibility and so they will inevitably coincide with prayers asking for them, giving one the illusion of answered prayers.

The only prayers that are never answered are prayers for events that are naturally impossible but should be possible with a god: An amputee regrowing a limb, a week old corpse coming back to life, a mountain being literally lifted up and transferred to the sea. All these are events that are impossible with man but should be possible with god. But prayers for such things are never answered. Why? Because there is no god listening to prayers.

Possible events happen and they will inevitably coincide with prayers for them. Impossible events won't happen and will never coincide with prayers for them. There is no god listening to and answering prayers. It's all self-delusion through coincidences and confirmation bias.

6

Bosquejos del superintendente de circuito (septiembre de 2017 a febrero de 2018)

by accesible in

jw
friends

aquí están los cuatros bosquejos.... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsekvnn0zxrmlzalu.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsy2pulwfplv91duk.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0bywm0b0qtwlsnhzsa2hitfa3cxc.

Island Man

Circuit Overseer outlines (September 2017 to February 2018)

7

Elder lying to me about a child molester.

by karter in

jw
friends

i was talking to an elder recently about all sorts of things non j.w related.. he said something about a guy in his congregation who is related to my ex wife and molested a little girl.. i said " i don't want to hear anything about that guy after what he did".

elder"i dont know what he did".

me" he is a child sex offender".

Island Man

But remember: according to Watchtower's definition of lying, it's not really a lie if the elder believes you're not entitled to know the truth.

35

September 1, 2017 BOE Re: Protecting Minors From Abuse?

by wifibandit in

i have it in spanish for now: .

1 de septiembre de 2017 a los cuerpos de ancianos asunto: protección de los menores contra el abuso.

please send this letter to me from any branch you have access to, in any language.

Island Man

I'm not sure crossing out paragraph 19 of chapter 12 of ks10 is a step in the right direction. On the surface, it appears to be but notice what is being crossed out:

If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal
decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision.

This is being replaced with:

they should be clearly informed about their right to file a complaint with the authorities.

Notice the elders aren't being told to make it clear to the parents that there are no sanctions for reporting. They're only mandated to tell the parents that it's their right to report to the police. Then the elders are told to not criticize anyone for making that decision.

I can well imagine elders comparing the new instruction with what they're being told to cross out to see what the difference is and, when noticing that the new instruction does not say to tell the parents there are no sanctions for reporting, might conclude that they should not tell this to the parents. So I can see a conversation going like this:

Elders: It is your right to make a report to the police if you so desire.
Parents: But would that bring reproach on the congregation? Would that affect our standing in any way?
Elders: All we can say is that it is your right to make a report to the police if you so desire.

Parents go away thinking that the elders are legally required to tell them that it's their right to report but that their unwillingness to say what effect such reporting would have on their standing, might be a subtle way of hinting to them, by omission, that they should not report because there will be adverse consequences, and that maybe they're legally barred from explicitly saying so.

They should have replaced paragraph 19 of chapter 12 of ks10 with:

Be sure to clearly inform the victim and/or their parent(s) that reporting the matter to the authorities is a moral responsibility and that there are no congregation sanctions for doing so. (Leviticus 5:1; Matthew 22:39; Romans 13:1-4)

25

Anybody watch Game of Thrones?

by shakyground in

jw
friends

i started watching game of thrones and it has become my fav tv show in a long time.

i may even read the novels.

i love fantasy novels and movies, i always tried not to like them and felt bad when a new book came out and always gave in and read it lol.

Island Man

I have only watched the first 3 or 4 episodes - a couple years ago - and never continued. I plan to start binge watching soon.

65

Today's Text - Justifying The Increase Of Annointed Ones!

by Divergent in

jw
friends

thursday, august 31. jehovah knows those who belong to him.—2 tim.

2:19.. in recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the memorial of christ’s death.

that trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades.

Island Man

Their explanation for the increase is no explanation at all.

The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed.

There has always been opportunity for persons to mistakenly think that they're anointed - even when the numbers were decreasing in the past. So why has there lately been an increase in those mistakenly thinking they're anointed?

Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven.

There has always been opportunity for persons to have mental or emotional problems leading them to mistakenly think that they're anointed - even when the numbers were decreasing in the past. So why has there lately been an increase in those with such problems leading to them mistakenly thinking they're anointed?

What's the trigger that started the upward trend in the number of anointed? That's the real issue that they're not addressing. Why aren't they saying?

The true reason for the increase is a change in Watchtower doctrine. During the time of decline in partakers, they used to teach that the heavenly hope closed around 1935 and any new anointed ones were simply replacements for past anointed who were unfaithful. Then about a decade ago they revised this claim with new light saying they can't give a date for the end of the heavenly calling. I believe this revision in doctrine emboldened more JWs to claim to be anointed. This, however, would be embarrassing to Watchtower as it would clearly imply that JWs' acceptance of their heavenly calling was being hampered/compromised by Watchtower doctrine. It puts the organization in a bad light as being so controlling as to dissuade JWs from accepting their heavenly calling and only when the organization changed a teaching did more JWs feel comfortable enough to accept the calling.

Another way of looking at it is that the trend demonstrates that JW anointing is not an anointing by God but an anointing by men based on doctrine, that's why a change in doctrine radically changes the number of anointed. This is the very embarrassing and inconvenient truth that they're afraid to admit.

22

Demonic content being used in the "Remember the Wife of Lot" video?

by The Fall Guy in

sadly it's in german, but i've been reliably informed of the crucial relevance of the moon, butterflies, owls, geckos, & mirrors in spiritistic practices - all featured in the "slave's" offering!

perhaps someone with a knowledge of german can provide a more detailed analysis.. according to this guy's forensic examination of the video, it uses spiritistic practices and symbolism repeatedly.

far too much to be a coincidence?

Island Man

Demons aren't real. It's time to toss superstitious medieval religious thinking in the trash where it belongs. "Demonic" is an adjective that JWs and other superstitious theists band about indiscriminately to refer to anything that appears remotely scary or weird.

Island Man

Posts by Island Man

Circuit Overseer outlines (September 2017 to February 2018)